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Post by sociology on Jul 1, 2009 15:38:26 GMT -5
How "ready" should one be in order to do the ASA employment service? I have one foot (half a foot?) on the job market this coming year, but I think chances are less than 50% that I will be in shape to get the kind of job I want by the time hiring starts to happen. What kinds of questions will prospective employers be asking - detailed questions about my dissertation? General "get to know you" kind of questions? How much of my dissertation needs to be pulled together for the experience to be worthwhile or at least not embarassing? I see that the conventional wisdom is that if it doubt it's good to do the service, but what is the "minimum suggested readiness level" below which I will regret signing up for it?
In case this info helps, I have one sole-authored pub at a small journal, a second-authored R&R at a big journal, and a couple other papers in process/mostly done. I don't have any substantive chapters of my dissertation written yet, though I do have some interesting results and know the story generally, and may have a decent draft of the most important chapter by the time of ASA. I am from a top 15 ranked department and have a lot of good teaching experience. I am open to working either at research- or at teaching- focused jobs (I guess mainly interested either in "top" liberal arts schools or in "good" research oriented places - but I would consider other places too if the location was right, etc.).
Thanks!
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Post by stickmoon on Jul 1, 2009 16:29:51 GMT -5
In case this info helps, I have one sole-authored pub at a small journal, a second-authored R&R at a big journal, and a couple other papers in process/mostly done. I don't have any substantive chapters of my dissertation written yet, though I do have some interesting results and know the story generally, and may have a decent draft of the most important chapter by the time of ASA. I am from a top 15 ranked department and have a lot of good teaching experience. I am open to working either at research- or at teaching- focused jobs (I guess mainly interested either in "top" liberal arts schools or in "good" research oriented places - but I would consider other places too if the location was right, etc.). Thanks! I was in a similar position last year...my suggestion for you is to forget about the job market this year and focus on your dissertation. The market is going to be a nightmare, and if you don't even have one chapter of your diss written, you might as well not bother to get your hopes up, only to be crushed. Remember, you're not just competing against other ABDs with pubs, you're also competing against PhDs, post-docs, and tenure-track profs looking to move elsewhere. Sure, you may get a few asa interviews, and may even get a fly-out real interview, but your chances of getting a job this year, given where you are in your grad program are very, very low.
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anon
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Post by anon on Jul 1, 2009 23:53:39 GMT -5
Re: 6:56 Echoing what others have said, I wouldn't spend $1300 just to attend the Employment Service. Just apply for the jobs you are interested in and if they like you they'll do a phone/in-person interview.
Re: 3:38 I'm going to somewhat disagree with stickmoon and say "it depends." If you have no worries about your current position/funding, then maybe you should wait a year. Hopefully the economy will improve and the job market will be less tight, and you should be in a good position by then to go on the market. If you're very attached to the idea that you're only going to take a top liberal arts school or good research oriented school, that advice might equally apply. (Although, this partially depends on the definition of "top" and "good.")
On the other hand, if you are already going to be at ASAs it costs you relatively little to sign up for the employment service, there may be positions you are very interested in that are posted for this coming year, and it's good interview experience. You can be selective about what schools you interview with at ASA (and/or complete applications for in the coming year more generally).
What questions are asked at ASAs depend on the focus of the school somewhat. If it is a teaching school you will probably only be asked to give a short description of what your dissertation is about (you might highlight one or two interesting findings, but otherwise probably not detailed so much as an overview) and/or asked where you are in terms of your dissertation status and whether you expect to defend/graduate before Fall 2010. If a research school, they might dwell a bit more on the dissertation, but still these interviews just aren't that long and they are, if nothing else, going to want to talk about your other research work and your future research agenda. If you can say that you have a draft chapter completed and that you are confident you can graduate by May 2010, you certainly would not be in an embarrassing position. One of my colleagues was in basically this position at the time of ASAs last year, and zie did get a research-focused position (although, not as a result of an ASA interview and the position is at a 3rd tier school, which may not be what you are looking for). I was somewhat behind zie in progress and was not offered a position last year, but did not feel embarrassed and received 3 interviews at good schools (though, again, not resulting from ASA interviews) which is not a bad track record given the market conditions last year.
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Post by accrit on Jul 2, 2009 7:18:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses about attending ES from overseas. I've decided to skip it and save the cash.
sk, I'm thinking about subletting an apt. near my home department this fall in order to avoid being on the market from overseas. One of my committee members cautioned me that search committees with tight budgets wouldn't want to have to think about international phone calls, fly-outs, etc. Plus, it'll be nice to have the resources of my dept. nearby. I think we should start that thread, though. I bet others have been in this situation and would have some tips to share.
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Post by travelbug on Jul 2, 2009 10:17:30 GMT -5
accrit, I was on the market from overseas one year. It did not stop me from getting an interview, but I did pay my own plane fare. Actually, I don't think it would have been a problem for the department, but I was being extra careful. In my cover letters, I said that I was overseas on a fellowship but was planning to be in the U.S. during interview season (sort of true). You might want to think about whether the cost of one or two flights for interviews is more or less than the cost to sublet an apartment.
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sk
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Post by sk on Jul 2, 2009 12:01:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses. I'll try to start a separate thread soon.
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tnrd
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Post by tnrd on Jul 3, 2009 15:59:53 GMT -5
Re the ES, I'd say $1,300 for this is probably too much (although I'd say that generally speaking it's probably a good idea to plan to be at ASA when one is going on the market regardless of ES). For those who're already at ASA, it may well be worth it. Accumulated experiences of this sort are generally helpful. Yes, it will stress you out, but so will the process in general, and at least this way you will have had some experiences with it already.
Re stickmoon's note about how ABDs are competing with postdocs, etc, please note that hiring committees are not naive and are well aware of people's position in the system. It is not always the case that a postdoc or a current asst prof is definitely preferred to someone freshly out. A CV will make it reasonably clear (in most cases) how many years someone took to get a PhD and what they may or may not have been up to since then. Someone who's been in grad school for four years and has a couple of publications with additional ones on the way may look very good next to someone who took 8 years to finish the PhD, has a postdoc now and has perhaps one or two more publications than the ABD person. (I'm using number of pubs as shorthand for number and quality of pubs.) If you feel like trying ES, you might as well. If a place decides that you're not ready then they would've very likely decided that based on your CV as well so it's not as though showing up at ES ruined your chances. (Yes, it's possible to make a bad impression, but if that's what you end up doing then it may be worth doing that now and learning from the experience for next year.)
Re on the market from overseas, yes, I think you should start a separate thread on this as it raises numerous questions that will get confusing to address on this thread about the ES plus you may miss out on the experiences of others who don't check this thread.
Re travelbug's comment about having gotten an interview while overseas, please note that travelbug, you can't know whether you would've had additional interviews had you not been abroad. Especially with today's tight budgets, this may be a consideration. Telling a dept that you're okay with paying for your trip back is not that obvious either as some places may not want to go down that road. In general, I recommend being in the country if possible. If not possible then I recommend using a US address and perhaps US phone number (a cell, an online service, a voice mail system) just so this is not an additional complicating variable in the process.
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Post by anonymous on Jul 9, 2009 9:48:22 GMT -5
I would also highly recommend the ES. Even if it doesn't result in a campus interview or job offer in the end, it's great practice for getting comfortable talking about the topics you'll have to talk about in a campus or even phone interview.
One point I'll add--last year, as an interviewee, I found the level of engagement of interviewers to vary widly. Some interviewers had my CV out with certain things hilighted that they wanted to find out more about and asked a lot of specific questions about how I could fit in with this or that aspect of what they were looking for. In other words, they gave the impression that they were serious about the interviews and really interested in learning about candidates and whether they were a good fit. At the other extreme, some schools had no idea what my name was and even complained to me about having to meet with all of these candidates. In many cases, they would have no questions to ask other than: "So, why did you request this interview?" In other words, they seemed like they were just doing it because their department asked them to and they weren't going to pay any serious attention to candidates until they started reviewing actual applications. That said, dealing with that type of situation can still be good practice and I do recommend the employment service.
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anon
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Post by anon on Jul 16, 2009 13:02:11 GMT -5
Has anyone heard when they are actually going to open the online portion of the employment service? It seems like it is really late this year compared to last year.
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tnrd
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Post by tnrd on Jul 17, 2009 14:39:22 GMT -5
My dept had an ad listed with them last year and so I have landed on the ES mailing list. I just now received a note that the service is finally open. They had sent out something earlier about the redesign/reprogramming taking longer than they had expected. (So yes, anon, you're right that this is definitely later than earlier years.)
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Post by thedodo on Jul 19, 2009 2:25:28 GMT -5
Yes, the employment service is open. And there are a grand total of THREE positions listed so far...
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anon
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Post by anon on Jul 19, 2009 10:41:05 GMT -5
Are they "new" positions or ones we'd already be aware of via the rumor mill job posts?
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Post by thedodo on Jul 19, 2009 14:44:33 GMT -5
two are new: wayne state and loyola marymount
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Post by damastes on Jul 19, 2009 16:35:47 GMT -5
If anyone is willing, would people mind posting stuff on ES that's not on the board? Wayne State and Loyola have not listed on the ASA website, the Chronicle or Inside Higher Ed as of last week.
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Post by thedodo on Jul 20, 2009 2:00:40 GMT -5
damastes, often the reason ES posting are not on other places is that many times a dept. will sign up for ES without having guaranteed the funding for the position, and as such are not inviting full applications yet.
It is not uncommon for ES job postings to never become open positions.
Wayne State's posting, for example, is not asking for application materials yet and says that the position is pending budgetary approval. Adding those to the list of known positions would certainly only increase confusion and frustration.
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