accepting both a job and a postdoc??

[very lucky]

In the past week i've gotten an offer for a postdoc and an offer for an assistant professorship job. Both are at really great places, I LOVE the professorship job, the area, the department, etc- although it's an R2 with a higher teaching load (3-3). The postdoc is also in a great location (family-wise, but not exactly my ideal type of area to live in), and in a decent (but not top) department- but like 3-4 of the top profs who study my exact dissertation topic sub-sub field work there, so it would be a great opportunity to work with them.

I know it's sometime possible to accept a job and defer the start of the job and do a postdoc your first year and then move to the new job.

Anyone have thoughts on this? They are in entirely different areas of the US- so that would mean a major move this year and then another major move next year. Am I totally crazy even thinking of doing that? Has anyone done something similar and emerged with their sanity/marriage intact?

[yes indeed]

I'll need more information before I can tell you what to do. Who are you, what department, and what post-doc is it?

[very lucky]

:lol:

[nice]

If the TT position will let you defer, then what harm can come from taking an additional year to up your publication output and further your research agenda? The problem arises if the TT position doesn't want to wait, in which case you may have no choice.

[hates moving]

I would also definitely ask about the possibility of deferring, but the other thing to keep in mind is that you probably lost at least a month of work with each move. At a certain point it doesn't stay worth it.

[very lucky]

Mar 4, 2010 20:16:53 GMT -5 @nice said:

If the TT position will let you defer, then what harm can come from taking an additional year to up your publication output and further your research agenda? The problem arises if the TT position doesn't want to wait, in which case you may have no choice.

well the harm would include losing a lot of research time due to the two big moves and having to settle in and learn an entirely new area/region of the country twice in two years, the stress involved in making 2 big moves, the stuff you inevitably lose whenever you move, my husband possibly (more like probably) not being able to find a job at the postdoc so him having to sit around doing nothing for a year (not a huge problem for us, but not ideal- the postdoc is in a very rural area with few job opportunities), the lower salary the postdoc pays vs. the professorship, the moving costs- the postdoc has not offered any funds to help with moving expenses.

And having to defer settling down by another year, and deferring all that comes with that greater stability, like the ability to start longer term friendships, have kids, plant the veggie garden I always wanted, buy a house and start decorating the way I want to decorate it, starting to get some more longer term furniture, etc. In the last 8 years I've moved 6 times and my husband has moved 9 times, and there's something to be said for settling down in one place for a while- which is something we are definitely both craving right now. Plus I would also be deferring being a full 'adult' member of the academic community by a year (I know postdocs are adults, but they are still kind of student-y too, it's like a weird hybrid status- which is also a disadvantage, cause I'll be the only postdoc in the department, so who would my friends be? professors? grad students?)

OTOH this means I would get to work with and probably co-author papers with the very top people in my specific topic area, which would mean greater prestige, possibly better future job opportunities farther in the future, and greater recognition.

It's funny, i've taught a few lectures on the gender wage gap, and one of the big reasons women earn less than men is because the are less mobile and less willing/able to move for their career than men are. I've always kind of looked at that as a bad thing preventing women from doing as well as men- but maybe women are making the better decisions here, that let them have a better life? Now that I'm actually the one making such decisions, it definitely isn't as black and white. And prestige isn't everything, no matter what my adviser would like me to do.

[yanick]

I fear we can't really help you there.

Things like the cost of the move in terms of lost days of work (as opposed to the financial cost), husband's job (or lack thereof) and time spent learning the new area are all extremely subjective. Though the way you phrase things leads me to believe you already decided against the postdoc and are looking for rationalizations to back up your plan (and I mean this in the nicest way possible).

The things you should keep in mind regarding the post doc is:
- As much as we don't like to admit it, networks matter a great deal in academics. More than publications and experience, if we believe the published research. If your new tt job is where you want to stay forever, that might no matter, but if you ever want to move, the postdoc will provide you with priceless recommendations.

- Even if you do plan on staying on your new tt job forever, a post doc can help you get a start on several publications that can help get tenure. Of course, tenure generally only counts the publications done majorly during your time at the job, but the post doc can get the ball running on several of them. And having the big names in your postdoc positively evaluate you can also help a lot with tenure.


Are these enough to counter to negatives? Only you and your husband will know.

[very lucky]

Mar 5, 2010 11:34:05 GMT -5 @yanick said:

Though the way you phrase things leads me to believe you already decided against the postdoc and are looking for rationalizations to back up your plan (and I mean this in the nicest way possible).

yeah I think you might be right....but on the other hand I don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering what might have been, and feeling like I gave up on what could have been a super awesome/prestigious career, ya know? But that's not guaranteed either...and skipping the postdoc doesn't necessarily preclude that either.

[interested]

I'd be curious to hear what you decide to pursue, and why. If you do attempt to negotiate the deferment, let us know how you approached it and what reaction you got.

Good luck with your decision!

[piping in]

Various thoughts:

There is certainly more to life than a career and more to a career than prestige (and some of your earlier replies suggest you're well aware of this).

There are other ways to net/work with the scholars at the postdoc school than through a postdoc.

That's a lot of moves(!), but I suppose the counter view would be if you've already moved this much, what's one more?

If you're an altruistic sort, there is also the angle that taking both positions is taking up 2 slots in a very tight job market. And I'm not saying that out of self-interest because I've not applied for any postdocs.

[clear]

Take the job.

Quality of life > prestige, no matter what academics try to tell you!

[movings sucks]

I don't have any experience with your predicament, but I did recently move for a job. The time lost was incredible (both in terms of both the personal and professional aspect of my life). Negotiating a new department and new city takes a great deal of time (for me, the entire first semester) and can be exhausting. Good luck making your decision.

[tnrd]

I'm likely way too late to this conversation, but I thought I'd reply in case there is someone with a similar dilemma reading this later.

Instead of putting so much energy into figuring out whether you should take the postdoc first, I would have gone to the chair at the TT position and asked whether deferring your start date would even be an option. The upside of this is that (a) if it's not then you don't have to agonize over it; (b) you signal to your new chair that you are a hot commodity and wanted by others as well.

[very lucky]

In the end I decided to take the job and skip the postdoc offers..the department was not happy about a deferment cause of staffing issues, and while the postdoc might have gotten me a slightly more prestigious job in the future, this job is a lot more of what I am looking for in terms of a balance of research and teaching, it's in a great area, I liked everyone in the department, lots of people on campus I can collaborate with who do similar research, and is pretty much exactly what I was looking for in a job. Fortunately between this year and last year I've had a few interviews, so I've gotten more of a clear idea for what I would prefer in a job/department, and this one has it.

And especially given the current state of the job market, I can't give up a job like that- even if I was guaranteed a similar level or even more prestigious job 2 years from now, which I'm not, there's no saying it would be in as good an area with as neat a department.