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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 11:58:17 GMT -5
Post by anon2 on Oct 12, 2009 11:58:17 GMT -5
yes, please update the wiki and/or this board if you have info about long or short lists having been made! this would be very helpful. thanks!
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 12:48:02 GMT -5
Post by hypocrates on Oct 12, 2009 12:48:02 GMT -5
wow, are sociologists really defending sham searches? If the searches are indeed a sham, whether or not this superstar is indeed the best candidate is irrelevant, isn't it? Talk about cognitive dissonance (or, depending on your area within sociology, decoupling is the term).
So, it is clear that some of you defend sham searches if the candidate appears to be among the best for that position. Does that extend to other searches as well? Why are these sham searches ok, but not others?
By the way, the person in question is not even the best candidate in her own department.
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 14:56:04 GMT -5
Post by not bitter yet on Oct 12, 2009 14:56:04 GMT -5
I agree sham searches are a bad thing on many levels--they prey on vulnerable people's hopes and make them waste time and money that they don't have. But that is the fault of the university, not the candidate. Maybe I will become bitter now
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Princeton grapevine
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 15:06:50 GMT -5
Post by Princeton grapevine on Oct 12, 2009 15:06:50 GMT -5
Word here is that Rice has made an offer to said person. So anyone don't get hope up about being on a short list there just yet, unless you are clearly quant.
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 15:21:50 GMT -5
Post by anoni on Oct 12, 2009 15:21:50 GMT -5
Well put hypo. Maybe its just my department, but I'm always struck by how soc grads tend to equate professionalization with making themselves believe that a situation that is kind of crummy is not only normal, but actually good.
This is case in point. One person comes along and says "it kind of sucks that a department would initiate a job search when they have already offered the job to somebody else". The this flame war starts, with everyone else saying "you are a hater", "you are bitter", "grow up and open your eyes", "well, the person in question really loves sociology and cares about their research" etc. etc. Weird.
As for these rumors, I would not be surprised if somebody was deliberately starting at least some of them. Given how the job market works, this would actually be a sound strategy.
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 15:28:37 GMT -5
Post by hypocrates on Oct 12, 2009 15:28:37 GMT -5
if that is true (about Rice), then the sham searches broaden! Though Im sure more people will defend sham searches.
(and just to be clear, if all these offers turn out to be false, then someone is clearly trying to cowardly smear said departments - or discourage others from going forward in those searches).
Though I must say that if this is all true, this would be some rich, delicious irony. Three institutions running sham searches where other candidates are not given full consideration in order to extend an offer to someone who researches precisely how one's status might limit interactions with legitimate institutions, especially when it comes to employment, is just too delicious an irony to ignore.
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 16:27:03 GMT -5
Post by Shameonyou on Oct 12, 2009 16:27:03 GMT -5
This is not true about Rice (see that thread). I doubt it is true about Duke either. In fact, this stuff, I am positive, is coming from someone with malicious intent.
This is exactly why we are not supposed to name names.
This kind of thing can actually hurt candidates. Let's stop it, please.
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 16:46:14 GMT -5
Post by agreed on Oct 12, 2009 16:46:14 GMT -5
agreed...both of those threads should probably be closed.
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 16:52:38 GMT -5
Post by anonnnnnn on Oct 12, 2009 16:52:38 GMT -5
Hurt candidates or help them. I'd be interested to know who was spreading these false rumors...
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 19:56:45 GMT -5
Post by Guest123 on Oct 12, 2009 19:56:45 GMT -5
Agreed with Shameonyou. The superstar candidate I was mentioning in the post that started this thread was not even the she-star but a he-star. It is amazing how quickly folks defaulted to talking about the she-star. It's as if there is a unhealthy obsession among the market with her.
I have it on very good information that Rice has NOT extended offers yet. So, I am now fully doubtful of the news reported on both Duke and Harvard.
This thread is disappointing.
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Harvard
Oct 12, 2009 20:47:29 GMT -5
Post by gugol on Oct 12, 2009 20:47:29 GMT -5
the duke rumor is absolutely true.
And if any of you think that inviting someone to present at a dept. seminar in the exact same month she becomes a job candidate there is just a huge coincidence, I have some miracle water that I want to sell you.
In fact, that is standard practice whenever a department has a specific someone in mind for a job: they'll ask that person in for a talk so that they can check each other out. The fact that most of you seem unaware that this goes on tells me you aren't paying enough attention. The only thing unusual about this case is that it is happening at the assistant professor level, rather than at the senior level.
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Harvard
Oct 13, 2009 6:59:18 GMT -5
Post by i dont know on Oct 13, 2009 6:59:18 GMT -5
The person in question also gave a talk at Penn last week and they are not even hiring this year...maybe she's just going around giving a bunch of talks right now because her ASR article made a big splash. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I hear her Penn talk was really good too.
Meanwhile I kinda feel bad for her...people talking nuts about her on the internet while she is running around to all these different schools giving talks. That just sounds stressful to me.
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Harvard
Oct 13, 2009 10:44:46 GMT -5
Post by anononon on Oct 13, 2009 10:44:46 GMT -5
I agree with gugol about this being standard practice, and yes, departments tend to do target of opportunity (TOO) searches for senior people, especially women and/or people of color (that's been the case here at Princeton anyway). But Harvard/Duke/etc. would be foolish not to move early and court a candidate like Goffman if that's who they want just because she's junior. Bummer for those who had their sights on those schools, but if a TOO hire, which in a way she is, lines up with a FTE line, it's a win-win for the school, and that's just tough for everyone else.
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Harvard
Oct 13, 2009 13:22:32 GMT -5
Post by Real Economist on Oct 13, 2009 13:22:32 GMT -5
Due to Affirmative Action, colleges must first make offers to minorities, regardless of ability. They are found very rarely in the real sciences, so sociology is one of those disciplines where people of color and women can be hired. They also rush stuff to publication to make up for poor quality. Praise the Lord these people are not in real sciences like medicine, economics, and physics, where ability is what counts [and hardly any women and minorities!]
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Harvard
Oct 13, 2009 14:11:17 GMT -5
Post by power motor on Oct 13, 2009 14:11:17 GMT -5
anononon--if you're at Princeton--can you please apologize (at least on my behalf) that people have spoken so poorly about one of your colleagues. i wish her all the best. her work is important and timely and i really appreciate her scholarship and look forward to seeing her work to come. thanks.
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