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Post by Prole Phd on Aug 24, 2009 9:57:56 GMT -5
Well, there are 50 positions to perhaps 700-800 individuals on 'the market'. How many hundreds of people will not have jobs? This means there are several hundred people who are going into the 'reserve army' of Ph.D. temps. Good luck fighting for the right to earn enough to live off the street and not die of starvation!
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sk
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Post by sk on Aug 24, 2009 10:45:09 GMT -5
Just would like to reiterate (and slightly rephrase) what I've said before.
Freaking out is not useful. Do not freak out. You will just waste your time. Assess your position in the market and act accordingly...
Prole is correct to point out that we have a bit of a demand-supply imbalance. This may be a good time for many of us to think about other forms of work. Many of us do have "skills" that employers are interested in, and a Ph.D. looks pretty good no matter what. So, yeah, if you don't have any publications, maybe applying to top-20 (50?) departments is a waste of your time, no matter how cool your dissertation is... and applying to liberal arts schools without teaching experience might similarly be pointless in this market.
But that doesn't mean you should worry about "fighting for the right to earn enough to live off the street and die of starvation" right now. Take other options seriously and try to find something you want to do. Don't assume you're going to get an academic job, but dont' freak out.
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anon
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Post by anon on Aug 24, 2009 11:25:36 GMT -5
can't say i am really feeling better about the new jobs trickling in... while i study in areas that everyone tells me are "hot" right now, i know there are so many other people further along, etc.
want to begin actively searching Plan B, C, D, E... but have been on this track for so long, i am not even sure where to begin...
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Post by Prole Phd on Aug 24, 2009 12:03:09 GMT -5
Please do not take what I say personally. I only extend the work of Malthus and Marx to the current situation. We work six years and take on enough debt to purchase a house, and the market now leaves us with a remote chance to take home less than $2k/month. Some will do better, but many will become adjuncts and teach 5/5 loads to make it. The good news is that death by starvation or exposure is thew worst we face!
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Post by anonymouse on Aug 24, 2009 13:11:43 GMT -5
Freaking out is not useful. Do not freak out. You will just waste your time. Assess your position in the market and act accordingly... LOL! so i suppose you would also say 'stay calm!' when a crazy person runs at you while waving a butcher knife? freaking out seems both natural and reasonable!
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anon
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Post by anon on Sept 5, 2009 12:02:44 GMT -5
So, yeah, if you don't have any publications, maybe applying to top-20 (50?) departments is a waste of your time, no matter how cool your dissertation is... I just have to comment on this. I'm currently an assistant professor at school with PhD program ranked around 50 (on the market myself this year - why i'm here). You're kidding yourself if you think you can get a job at a place like this without any pubs. In fact, you need more than pubs, you need a pub in ASR, AJS or Social Forces. And that probably won't even be enough. When we hired a couple of years ago we had the luxury of tossing out folks with "just one" ASR, AJS or Social Forces. I imagine that will be even worse this year - though we're not hiring.
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anon
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Post by anon on Sept 5, 2009 12:26:58 GMT -5
I think fewer international applicants would have publications in these journals (ASJ, ARS and SS). For myself and others i know just how important the journal hegemony is in the US only became evident after coming on the job market. How do you think publications by international applicants are regarded by hiring committees in the US? Is it as much of a strike against if they don't have articles in those venues?
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Post by damastes on Sept 5, 2009 13:22:15 GMT -5
One should take into account the variation in departments. I know of cases last year where top 5 departments interviewed candidates without an ASR/AJS/SF paper, but had several pubs otherwise. Key variables include: -what's in the pipeline [having six high quality papers under review or ready to send out is worth a single ASR with not much else coming] -the ability to obtain external grants -social networks -qualifications to fit needs & department culture -authorship ordering [2 3rd author AJS/ASR/SF would not be weighted heavily] -theoretical contributions -background How things play out at a particular school will vary. I'm sure some count ASRs, AJSs, SF articles and hire, but other factors come into play as well at a number of institutions. Very easy to get depressed if we stereotype 100 hiring committees and colleges.
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anon
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Post by anon on Sept 5, 2009 15:05:44 GMT -5
Yeah...there is definitely not a one size fits all pub formula. Just go to the website of any top 50, top 20 or even more so top 10 department out there and look at who they have hired lately. Do all their junior hires have an AJS/ASR/SF publication? No. That should settle it, right?
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Post by ace on Sept 5, 2009 15:28:55 GMT -5
I'd actually venture to say that in the 20-50th ranked schools, nearly all of their recent hires won't have crazy good pub records (at least at the time of hire). It would really be quite inefficient for one of these places to write off anyone without an ASR/AJS, as even if they are successful in landing one, that person will undoubtedly be looking to move up sometime soon (e.g., asst prof poster above). In my top 10 department, none of the recent junior hires had a first- or sole-authored ASR/AJS. If you think about it, there are probably only 5 or so junior people on the market who have multiple ASR/AJSs.
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anon
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Post by anon on Sept 5, 2009 16:00:15 GMT -5
My impression is that pubs actually count more at 20-50 ranked schools; these are the places where the search committee is more likely to "count" pubs. Within the top 20 schools the research agenda + networks matters a whole lot more than pubs.
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Post by blat on Sept 5, 2009 16:43:51 GMT -5
There's also quite a bit of randomness built into the hiring process.
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Post by bababooey on Oct 7, 2009 10:10:20 GMT -5
I'm going to say...no. It is not too early to freak the eff out.
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Post by freaking out on Oct 22, 2009 10:04:37 GMT -5
Okay bababooey, because I am now freaking the eff out in a big way. I just finished the last job application (something else might come along, but for now, nothing else in the queue). Total Jobs: 13. Chances of being hired: Snowball in hell? I am geographically limitedand while I think I am a strong candidate, I'm no superstar. I am going to have heart didease and an ulcer by the the time this process is over. I don't have much capacity for Zen in me.
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Post by anonomouse on Oct 22, 2009 12:25:26 GMT -5
freaking out- i finished most of my apps and am freaking out just as much as you. I wake up every morning at 6am in a panic and check this board and my email and feel like I'm going to throw up all the time..my stomach is just like twisted in anxiety. This is not healthy, but I don't know how to stop. I feel like this job market and the associated stress is taking time off the end of my life.
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